We are now a nation of taxi drivers...
The referendum on citizenship was passed with 80% of voters voting Yes.
Why?
Just before the referendum, I was getting worried that I couldn't find any reason to vote No...even though the Greens, Labour etc. were all advocating a No vote. I found myself agreeing with Bertie and McDowell. This was pretty wierd so I went looking at the Green Party website to see what their platform was. I came across their 10 reasons for voting No webpage. What I found there annoyed me enough to post the following on a web forum...
I know the Green Party wants a No vote. But that's no reason to vote no without looking at the arguments. The Green Party's arguments are fairly unimpressive...and to be honest they reek more of the politicking that they accuse the government of. It pains me to say this...but it's true. Their arguments are:
1. Protect the Good Friday Agreement. This is probably the best argument when looked at superficially. Especially with the SDLP getting worried about Unionist reaction. Thing is, the Unionists would probably be in favour of a Yes vote (they don't want to be Irish citizens). And the British government isn't gonna rescind the Agreement on this basis. So what's the problem?
2. The Chen case and the ECJ. I really don't see the relevance of this. No matter what the ECJ decides, the Europeans are still gonna want us to fix this loophole anyway (cos an Irish passport is also an EU passport).
3. Keep our elections free from racism. This is not a reason. This is not an argument. This just cheapens the word racism. I hate this kind of rabble-rousing and sadly the No campaigners are the only ones who seem to indulge in it. Disappointing.
4. Citizenship tourism is a myth/anecdote. So what? That doesn't mean that we shouldn't fix a loophole that enables it in the future...unless we want to have "citizenship tourism" (a phrase I hate). Do we? I don't think anyone wants to force people to have kids to get passports. Am I wrong? Anyway, this is not an argument. This is just politicking because McDowell is a shithead (and he is). Nothing to do with the issues.
5. The Health Services are in trouble because of Government neglect. Well...yes. They are. Which is why you'd need to have your head examined (assuming you could find a hospital to do it) to vote for this government. But what's this got to do with the referendum and the citizenship issue? Politicking again. And I'm starting to get annoyed with the No campaigners. Address the issues! Everyone hates the government. We know they're useless. But that's got nothing to do with this referendum.
6. 2nd Class Citizenship for Irish Children. This is a very confused argument. I quote:
"It will create a category of children, who because of who their parents are, have less protection under the Constitution than other children, even though they have a birthright to be part of the nation. The amendment will allow the Government to legislate without restraint as to which "foreign" children can be denied citizenship." Well...yes, the whole point of the referendum is to do exactly this. It is to deny that you can get citizenship just by being born here. It removes the "birthright" mentioned above. I think this is a good thing. I don't think anyone should be accorded rights of Irish citizenship just because they have a lot of money, because their parents are important or because they just happened to be born here. I think there should be something more. This is not really an argument. I'm not sure what it is.
7. The Referendum breaches established guidelines. There hasn't been enough consultation. Ok...the government are shitheads. We get it. But this is procedural stuff, what has it got to do with the issues?
8. The Government hasn't got an immigration policy. Well...I know that. They're shitheads. They won't fix the horribly broken work permit scheme which is holding hundreds of people in slavery. Trust me, I'm not gonna vote for them in the next general election. But what has this got to do with the referendum?
9. Ireland is no longer Ireland of the Welcomes. Oh come on! Grow up. This is not an argument (even though I agree with the sentiment). It has nothing to do with the referendum or citizenship. This is sloganeering.
10. Immigrants make a positive contribution to Ireland. Well...yes. They do. We need more. Lots more. We need to give the right to work. After a few years, we should even give them citizenship. This citizenship can then be conferred on their children. But we shouldn't give citizenship to babies whose parents are citizens of another country and have no ties to Ireland *yet*. This makes no sense.
...so those are the Green Party arguments and even though I'm heavily biased against the government, they still don't convince me.
It was only after a lot more digging through tripe like the above, that I came across this (warning, doc format), which finally provides some decent "No" arguments.
The Greens and all the other opposition parties dropped the ball on this one. They could have leveraged the massive anti-government sentiment in the country (witness the local election results...held on the same day) to swing the referendum their way. Instead, they resorted cheap and tacky shots at the government and never actually addressed the issues involved in the referendum...which, despite its many failings, the government did.
Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "lalalalalala you're a racist so i'm not going to talk to you" is not a legitimate debating tactic. They managed to grossly insult and alienate much of the electorate by attributing racist motives to every single person who was not a committed No voter. Idiots.
Reminds me of that joke explaining that there are two types of fascists. Fascists, and anti-fascists.
Why?
Just before the referendum, I was getting worried that I couldn't find any reason to vote No...even though the Greens, Labour etc. were all advocating a No vote. I found myself agreeing with Bertie and McDowell. This was pretty wierd so I went looking at the Green Party website to see what their platform was. I came across their 10 reasons for voting No webpage. What I found there annoyed me enough to post the following on a web forum...
I know the Green Party wants a No vote. But that's no reason to vote no without looking at the arguments. The Green Party's arguments are fairly unimpressive...and to be honest they reek more of the politicking that they accuse the government of. It pains me to say this...but it's true. Their arguments are:
1. Protect the Good Friday Agreement. This is probably the best argument when looked at superficially. Especially with the SDLP getting worried about Unionist reaction. Thing is, the Unionists would probably be in favour of a Yes vote (they don't want to be Irish citizens). And the British government isn't gonna rescind the Agreement on this basis. So what's the problem?
2. The Chen case and the ECJ. I really don't see the relevance of this. No matter what the ECJ decides, the Europeans are still gonna want us to fix this loophole anyway (cos an Irish passport is also an EU passport).
3. Keep our elections free from racism. This is not a reason. This is not an argument. This just cheapens the word racism. I hate this kind of rabble-rousing and sadly the No campaigners are the only ones who seem to indulge in it. Disappointing.
4. Citizenship tourism is a myth/anecdote. So what? That doesn't mean that we shouldn't fix a loophole that enables it in the future...unless we want to have "citizenship tourism" (a phrase I hate). Do we? I don't think anyone wants to force people to have kids to get passports. Am I wrong? Anyway, this is not an argument. This is just politicking because McDowell is a shithead (and he is). Nothing to do with the issues.
5. The Health Services are in trouble because of Government neglect. Well...yes. They are. Which is why you'd need to have your head examined (assuming you could find a hospital to do it) to vote for this government. But what's this got to do with the referendum and the citizenship issue? Politicking again. And I'm starting to get annoyed with the No campaigners. Address the issues! Everyone hates the government. We know they're useless. But that's got nothing to do with this referendum.
6. 2nd Class Citizenship for Irish Children. This is a very confused argument. I quote:
"It will create a category of children, who because of who their parents are, have less protection under the Constitution than other children, even though they have a birthright to be part of the nation. The amendment will allow the Government to legislate without restraint as to which "foreign" children can be denied citizenship." Well...yes, the whole point of the referendum is to do exactly this. It is to deny that you can get citizenship just by being born here. It removes the "birthright" mentioned above. I think this is a good thing. I don't think anyone should be accorded rights of Irish citizenship just because they have a lot of money, because their parents are important or because they just happened to be born here. I think there should be something more. This is not really an argument. I'm not sure what it is.
7. The Referendum breaches established guidelines. There hasn't been enough consultation. Ok...the government are shitheads. We get it. But this is procedural stuff, what has it got to do with the issues?
8. The Government hasn't got an immigration policy. Well...I know that. They're shitheads. They won't fix the horribly broken work permit scheme which is holding hundreds of people in slavery. Trust me, I'm not gonna vote for them in the next general election. But what has this got to do with the referendum?
9. Ireland is no longer Ireland of the Welcomes. Oh come on! Grow up. This is not an argument (even though I agree with the sentiment). It has nothing to do with the referendum or citizenship. This is sloganeering.
10. Immigrants make a positive contribution to Ireland. Well...yes. They do. We need more. Lots more. We need to give the right to work. After a few years, we should even give them citizenship. This citizenship can then be conferred on their children. But we shouldn't give citizenship to babies whose parents are citizens of another country and have no ties to Ireland *yet*. This makes no sense.
...so those are the Green Party arguments and even though I'm heavily biased against the government, they still don't convince me.
It was only after a lot more digging through tripe like the above, that I came across this (warning, doc format), which finally provides some decent "No" arguments.
The Greens and all the other opposition parties dropped the ball on this one. They could have leveraged the massive anti-government sentiment in the country (witness the local election results...held on the same day) to swing the referendum their way. Instead, they resorted cheap and tacky shots at the government and never actually addressed the issues involved in the referendum...which, despite its many failings, the government did.
Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "lalalalalala you're a racist so i'm not going to talk to you" is not a legitimate debating tactic. They managed to grossly insult and alienate much of the electorate by attributing racist motives to every single person who was not a committed No voter. Idiots.
Reminds me of that joke explaining that there are two types of fascists. Fascists, and anti-fascists.
posted by batgimp | 11:03 p.m.
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